‘Iraqis within the Kurdistan Workers’ Party may be pardoned’

Barzani said he had the opportunity to discuss Turkey’s democratic initiative with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan two weeks ago. Describing this meeting as friendly, Barzani said that the Kurdish regional government might pardon the Iraqi members of the PKK adding that this would be taken up in the regional parliament.

Making striking remarks about Ergenekon, a clandestine network nested within the Turkish state that intended to pave the way for an eventual military takeover, Barzani argued that their relations with Turkey had been undermined by this network in the past. He blamed Ergenekon for what happened after a terrorist attack against the Dağlıca military outpost in the province of Hakkari  in which 13 Turkish soldiers died in a PKK ambush in late 2007 and said he also believed it would soon be revealed that Ergenekon is also behind tensions in Kirkuk, an Iraqi city whose control is disputed among Kurds, Arabs and Turkmen and was once a source of conflict between Turkey and Iraq.

Q: We know that you came to Turkey in early November, but it was a quietly conducted visit.

A: It was not an official visit. I visited Turkey with my family. We went to İstanbul. It was my first visit to Turkey since 2003. We wanted to tear down the psychological walls. We wanted to tear down the psychological wall of “Will they come to Turkey now?” We stayed for about four days.

Q: Did you have any meetings that were not made public?

A: Yes, we had a meeting with Mr. Prime Minister Erdoğan. Coincidentally, he was in İstanbul, and we met there.

Q: What did you talk about?

A: It was a quite amicable meeting. He told us his view about the initiative that is going on in Turkey. He talked about his relationship with and interest in Iraq in general and the Kurdistan region in particular. And we’ve highlighted our support for this initiative. We believe that the initiative launched by the Turkish government will be auspicious. In my opinion, he gave a very clear message. He says that this bloodshed and this tragedy must be stopped. He says that mothers should no longer cry. He says that young people should no longer die. And, from a humanitarian perspective, he deserves full support.

Q: Did you tell Erdoğan what you could do?

A: This issue is essentially an internal affair for Turkey. The role we can play here will be only of a supportive nature, and this role cannot be concerned in [Turkey’s] domestic affairs. However, we are undoubtedly ready to lend any assistance necessary for the success of this project.

Q: The democratic initiative was discussed in the Turkish Parliament last week. The government made some proposals. In return, the opposition voiced criticism. How do you interpret these developments?

A: We have carefully observed the developments. No doubt such a project cannot be expected to derive support from all groups. Still, an environment has been formed in Turkey. A vision to settle the 80-year-old problem is in the making. Turkey is making bold moves to treat its 80-year-old problem. An environment for solving the causes of the problem is being created. Thus, it is perfectly natural that there will be criticism or protests when one is trying to settle such an established problem. We cannot expect everyone to approve it. But, the most important thing is the outcome. Let me tell you something more important. Few people can make a big difference in history. However, only those who manage to make such changes become true leaders. In my opinion, Mr. Erdoğan is such a leader and deserves internal and external support. The atmosphere in Parliament is characterized by political contention, done mostly for futile ends.

Q: You said that it is a domestic affair for Turkey, but what will you do about it?

A: We are ready to lend any support asked of us. This is mostly dependent on Turkey’s requests.

Q: Has any such request been made?

A: So far, no official and concrete request has been made. They just ask for cooperation concerning the group that recently returned to Turkey. And we did our part.

Q: With regard to this process, it is claimed that there is a trilateral coalition among Turkey, northern Iraq and the US? Is there such a mechanism?

A: The US has not made any intervention in this regard. I do not know if the US has any role. There is already a general cooperation between Iraq and Turkey in this context and the future of this cooperation is dependent on Ankara’s policies.

Q: There are people who left the PKK and settled in northern Iraq with a temporary residence card. What are their numbers and do you have any plans under way to return these people to Turkey?

A: Their numbers are not that many, but as a matter of the policy we follow, we always have and will provide help for those who want to return to Turkey of their own will.

Q: Some members of the PKK are Iraqi. Are you considering starting an initiative for your own citizens as well?

A: The number of Iraqi people in the PKK is fairly low. Everyone knows how much pain was inflicted on the Kurds by the PKK. But an initiative is currently in question. Our parliament can bring this to the agenda and an initiative in which an amnesty is granted to anyone that is Iraqi could be brought up.

Q: Even if support from northern Iraq is out of the question, the PKK is able to find logistical opportunities. Are there any measures you’ve taken to prevent these resources from being accessed?

A: We went through an experience together with Turkey on the issue of the PKK. This experience caused many problems for both Turkey and for us. I believe the biggest lesson Turkey learned was that this issue can no longer be solved through military methods. Turkey is a valuable neighbor for us. It is a neighbor that has assisted us in our painful and difficult days. It is a neighbor that helped us during the Anfal campaign, embraced our people during the events of 1991 and opened its doors whenever we needed help. It is irrational to support an organization that would strike a blow at Turkey. The PKK is an organization that was created in Turkey. It deployed to a geographically very rugged region. We have taken measures against them in the past. We have measures in effect right now, and these measures will be even stricter from now on. We enforce measures at airports, hospitals and checkpoints. We have never provided logistical support to the PKK in any way.

Q: How many PKK members have you captured and surrendered to Turkey so far?

A: I was not talking about attacking and arresting them. But we have imposed measures to cut off their logistical capabilities.

Q: At certain times the PKK has caused relations between northern Iraq and Turkey to become strained. State Minister Ali Babacan recently stated that Turkey had reached the brink of war after the attack in Dağlıca in 2007. Documents that were seized within the scope of the Ergenekon investigation revealed that the Dağlıca attack was planned to create a Kurdish-Turkish conflict. Did you have any information about this?

A: When you look at the Dağlıca attack carefully, you can understand where it came from. How many times was the same place attacked in the past? Since there were attacks before, why weren’t the proper precautionary measures taken? We did not have any foreknowledge about a structure called Ergenekon. From the experiences we went through, we saw that there is a hand both in the PKK and Turkey that did not want to solve this problem. But we were not able to have our voice heard until now. Now we can be heard because some events have taken place in Turkey. This is not a small issue. The Ergenekon operation is quite a big issue. At one point there was an explosion in Turkey and right after that explosion the Turkish media said President Massoud Barzani had a hand in it. We knew that there was an intentional effort to create certain atmospheres. There is a powerful hand that does not want this problem to be solved. This hand is in Turkey and has a group of helpers within the PKK.

Q: Was this structure involved in any other activities to deteriorate relations between northern Iraq and Turkey?

A: Most certainly. If we turn to the past, we see that many interesting events happened. The media created a very bad image of us in Turkish public opinion. They created an image of us as people against Turkey. We were not able to have our voices heard to inform the Turkish public. It was very upsetting for us to be portrayed as people with enmity toward Turkey. But we were able to make sense of a lot of things once Ergenekon was exposed.

Q: The current process is a fairly critical one; are you concerned that this process will be sabotaged?

A: We are extremely concerned because this project attracts a great number of enemies. There are a lot of actors seeking to make sure that Turks and Kurds become hostile toward each other. There are such actors in Turkey as well; some circles within the PKK want to see to it that the initiative is inconclusive. Let me give you an example; was it really necessary to celebrate the return of the PKK militants to Turkey considering that this was irritating and provocative. The return of this group was a good start. However, sadly, they simply undermined such a good project from the beginning. This provoked the Turkish public. We are afraid of such provocations. These celebrations were unnecessary. We find them quite wrong. You cannot expect the resolution of such a thorny issue overnight. Turkey should develop a national project to resolve this. Resolution of this problem will serve Turkey’s political, economic and social interests. It will have an impact on us as well.

Q: Do you envisage a time frame for the evacuation of Kandil?

A: We hope that this day will come. The recent steps in Turkey are promising. Our ultimate goal is a lasting resolution. We desire the resolution of this problem.

Q: Have you ever been to Kandil?

A: I saw it only during our period of struggle.

Q: The prime minister visited Baghdad and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu headed to Arbil. What agreements were made aside from those announced to the public?

A: The Kurdistan region is part of Iraq. We were glad about the prime minister’s visit to Iraq. We hope that the agreements signed during this visit will be implemented. The visit by Davutoğlu was a successful one. The bilateral talks were pretty fruitful. We see this visit as a historic one. We look forward to seeing the launch of the Turkish consulate in Arbil.

Q: What are your requests with respect to the improvement of relations between Turkey and northern Iraq?

A: We favor an increased trade volume between Turkey and Iraq. We recommended an increase in the number of border gates. We also seek to create a free trade zone along the border.

Q: There is no longer a visa requirement for the entry of Turks into Syria; would you consider such an action?

A: Currently, we believe that it is too soon for lifting the visa requirement.

Q: How big are oil-seeking Turkish companies here?

A: There are serious ventures. We have three firms here that are working with us. Oil is one of the sectors we are promoting. We may create resources that could be transported to Europe via Turkey. There is such a potential in the Kurdistan region. We hope that we improve relations with Turkey and open up to Europe through it.

Q: What do you think about the Turkish schools active here?

A: The opening of the Turkish schools here sparked serious discussions. They have been operating for years. As a person supporting this project, I would say that these schools offer high-quality education. These schools are all around the world. We offer opportunities in this respect to the French and the Lebanese; why would we not do the same for our neighbors? Why would not we allow the operation of Turkish schools here? They have done some good things here. I extended huge support in troubled times to this project, and I am happy with that. The graduates from these schools will contribute to the improvement of bilateral relations between the two countries.

Q: Elections will take place in January 2010. People we talk to in Kirkuk say that the Kurdish population in this province constitutes 70 percent of the entire population. In such an environment, they argue that the problem encountered in 2003 will resurface -- are you concerned about this?

A: No, of course not. These are pretexts put forward for other political ends. We are aware that not only Kurds live in Kirkuk. It is a city of Iraq holding a Kurdish identity. It also includes Arab and Turkmen elements. There is oil and natural gas in Kurdistan. There is no such problem anymore. Above all, Turkmen groups are entitled to national rights in this region. Their rights, including the right to education in their native language, are recognized. They are one of the nations in this region. Sadly, there are some Turkmen parties creating obstacles before the achievement of stability in the region because they want to sabotage relations between Turks and Kurds. They are doing this particularly in Kirkuk. They are not a minority; they are the second-largest group after the Kurds.