“Recently, similar statements coming from the chief of general staff and the prime minister have shown, at least, what is not going to happen in the process of addressing the Kurdish issue, although it has yet to touch on what is going to happen,” he said, answering questions for Monday Talk.
The government and the main opposition parties, the Republican People's Party (CHP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP), have been engaged in a fierce battle while the government has been seeking public consensus on the issue. In the process, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has broken his policy of not engaging with the pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) -- because the DTP does not declare the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) a terrorist organization -- and had a meeting with its leaders.
‘Recently, similar statements coming from the chief of general staff and the prime minister have shown, at least, what is not going to happen in the process of addressing the Kurdish issue, although it has yet to touch on what is going to happen' |
Özgürel said comments concerning the Kurdish initiative made by the imprisoned leader of the PKK, Abdullah Öcalan, should be considered because Kurds identify with him, whether they like him or not.
The Kurdish conflict in Turkey has cost the lives of about 40,000 people since 1984, resulted in more than 17,000 unsolved murders, cost billions of dollars in military expenditure and countless billions more in wasted opportunity.
In our interview, Özgürel said it is the right time to address the issue thoroughly as the country has an historic chance since the National Security Council (MGK) supports such a democratic opening.
Why do you think the MHP leader has been so hot tempered recently over the government's Kurdish opening?
In Turkey, public debates in general are not done based on information; they are based on vague concepts. The media also have not been engaged in an intellectual debate based on concrete information. There is no project offered. So people just assume and hypothesize. The reactions voiced by the MHP and the CHP -- it is not correct to say that this is just about the MHP -- are based on a concern that Kurdish demands would lead to restructuring the Turkish state.
Why is there such a concern about the initiative when there is no project presented, as you also said?
Because, first of all, there is talk to remove the word “Turk” from the Constitution. Maybe this is not said by the government, but it has been said by some intellectuals who are being consulted by the government. There is also some talk about making Kurdish Turkey's other official language, and there are statements from İmralı [where Abdullah Öcalan, de facto leader of the outlawed PKK, is imprisoned]. At the same time there has been no statement until recently from the Turkish government clarifying its views on these topics; so the MHP and CHP's reactions have been harsh and loud. But recently, similar statements coming from the chief of general staff and the prime minister have shown, at least, what is not going to happen in the process of addressing the Kurdish issue, although it has yet to touch on what is going to happen.
 Avni Özgürel, researcher of Turkish political history and terrorism He was born in 1948 in Ankara and has lived in İstanbul for the past 17 years. His father was an army officer. He practiced journalism until five years ago, and he has written seven books on Ottoman history, including the latest one this year: “Power Play” (İktidar Oyunu). He mainly researches and writes on the political history of the nation starting with its roots in Central Asia. He also studies Kurdish political history and separatist movements and is a regular columnist at the Radikal daily. |
What do you think is not going to happen according to the messages coming from the top level?
We understand from these messages that the official language of Turkey, which is Turkish, cannot be changed, and the unitary structure of Turkey cannot be changed. The opposition's reactions have mellowed since these points have been clearly voiced. But we still do not know the content of the project which will be prepared by the end of the year, as the prime minister said.
What do you think it will consist of?
It will probably consist of granting cultural rights -- like establishing Kurdology departments at universities, expanding opportunities for Kurdish broadcasting, providing Kurdish translations at courts and official places if there is a need -- also demanded by international agreements approved by Turkey. There is also another issue, which is addressing the terrorism dimension of the problem.
 ‘Opposition not convincing by blaming outside forces' The MHP and the CHP accuse the government of being controlled by some foreign plot regarding the Kurdish opening. What do you think? The opposition's argument is not convincing at all. The CHP bases its arguments on a think tank report and says it is actually the United States which is seeking a solution to the problem. Firstly, if the US wants a solution to a problem, that does not mean that solving such a problem is a bad thing because it is supported by the US. Secondly, the US is a country involved in our region where there are a lot of Kurds. Stability in the region is in the interest of the United States since it is pulling its troops [out of Iraq], and it has more jobs to do in this region. This is a normal desire of the US. ‘MGK consensus: a first in history of Turkish Republic' “For the first time in the history of the Turkish Republic, the Turkish military has expressed at the MGK that the democratization process is going to be good for Turkey. There is no other example of this. This is the best consensus obtained among the state's institutions. Not supporting such an opening would make us ashamed in front of our next generations.” |
What would a solution, such a proposal, require regarding the issue of terrorism?
The proposal would probably aim at marginalizing the terrorist organization [PKK]. There was a law to encourage the members of the organization to lay down their weapons. This law could be expanded to be a partial amnesty.
‘House arrest possibility for Öcalan’
Do you think Öcalan could be given some type of amnesty or even freedom?
Even Öcalan himself does not say that he should be freed; he talks about the improved conditions where he is living. He is isolated. It wouldn't be possible to put him into a regular jailhouse because his safety would be in danger. In the long term, he might be under house arrest.
Would that also mean acceptance of Öcalan as a political actor?
Öcalan is not a hero for all Kurds in Turkey. However, whether or not they have sympathy for Öcalan, Kurds are sensitive about Öcalan. This does not mean that they approve or do not approve what he does, but they somehow identify with him. So this sensitivity should be taken into consideration. Government officials would never talk to Öcalan directly, but this country has intelligence units dealing with terrorism. They are probably in contact with Öcalan in some way, and Öcalan can also evaluate the situation based on these contacts. After all, Turkey has come to the end of the road on the Kurdish issue.
Would you elaborate on this idea?
First, from the Kurds' point of view: the Kurds see that they cannot depend on the structure in northern Iraq. Both Kurds and the PKK have seen it. The PKK has more difficulties being in the region as an armed organization -- including being in Syria and Iran -- compared to the past. Secondly, Turkey has been moving closer to becoming a member of the European Union, despite having difficulties. Along the way, Turkey has also been adopting more principles regarding the well being of its citizens and human rights. And this adaptation does not create outrage in society. This environment would provide a better, freer place for Kurds to live in. So this is the trend. Another fact is that the United States has been pulling its forces out of Iraq, and the political establishment in northern Iraq does not want to irritate Turkey -- meaning that they see their future with Turkey. In that regard, [Iraqi Kurdish leader Massoud] Barzani has a positive influence on Turkey's Kurds.
What do you see when you look at the issue from Turkey's point of view? Why is Turkey at the end of the road to solve the Kurdish problem?
Turkey has seen that terrorism will never end. Several chiefs of general staff said several times that the terrorism problem in Turkey was finished. However, it never ended, and it does not seem likely to end. Each dead person is a loss for Turkey even if they are from the PKK. They are citizens of Turkey. And they are people who should normally be carrying the hopes for their future on Turkey.
‘Turkish military, government rule out autonomy’
Chief of General Staff Gen. İlker Başbuğ made an interesting statement recently following the National Security Council meeting where the military expressed support for the government's Kurdish initiative. How do you interpret this development? Is there a conflict between the MGK meeting's decisions and Gen. Başbuğ's comments?
Gen. Başbuğ has just stressed the founding principles of Turkey: unitary structure, one flag and one official language. He ruled out a federation or autonomy. If the General Staff did object to the current democratization process, they would openly voice it as they have done before. So again the government and the General Staff explained this week what is not going to happen in Turkey. It is not possible for the military at this point to be in conflict with its own statements regarding the issue.
Do you think the MHP is convinced?
There is still no plan or project about how to solve the problems. As I said, the government and the General Staff explained this week what is not going to happen. But what is going to happen? There needs to be a project.
Do you think the government is sincere in its efforts to seek consensus because government officials say they are first collecting opinions about how to address the long-standing problems?
They are probably sincerely seeking a consensus. I don't know if the MHP is going to support the project which will come out of this process. The MHP's support is important. The MHP may not choose to say it is behind the project, but if this harsh style of opposition continues to increase tension in Turkey, then it would be a very difficult process. There will probably be a project which would not be harshly opposed by the MHP and the CHP. This should not be interpreted as a step back by the government in the face of criticism by opposition. The government appears to have a general framework about solving the issue and the chief of general staff's position gave it further go-ahead.
The MHP and the CHP might be somewhat pleased, and the General Staff might have an approving stance. But do you think such a pleasant-looking project would also look good to the Kurds?
Democracy is a regime in which everybody lives with his or her second choice. When we ask the Kurds what they want, they have different wishes according to where they are. If they seek separation, this project apparently will not have it. In general, the Kurds will have to look at it and see if the project satisfies them. The key question is whether they would choose the way of politics or an armed struggle to defend their views.
You mentioned that it is the right time to handle the Kurdish problem. What would happen if it is not solved?
Civil war like we have been having in the past several years. What worse scenario can you imagine other than this? It has been already consuming Turkey's people and resources for so many years.
Ergenekon investigation scared supporters of conflict
Are there groups which would not like a solution to the problem?
There are probably both Kurdish and Turkish groups which are kept alive by the continuation of the problem. If there is an attack on a Turkish post in the Southeast where there might be many soldiers lost, many people in Turkey would think this is a provocation. Such provocations have been done in the past. Therefore, such acts do not have much credibility today. Detentions, arrests and imprisonments as a result of the Ergenekon investigation have scared people who may attempt such provocations again. In addition, Turkey's border areas in the East and Southeast are drug trade corridors. There are the PKK and probably even some members of the Turkish security forces at some of the checkpoints. Such people would like the continuation of the problem.
Are there other obstacles blocking a solution to the problem?
There are mental barriers. For years, Turkish people have been used to the idea that there are only “Turks.” This mentality has been fed by daily rituals in schools, such as elementary children thought to say “How happy to be a Turk.” Our children and youth have been raised with this mentality that the Turk is greater than anybody else. This is a mental barrier. We might have the world's best laws, but in practice we have to make sure that people are happy with the laws. We have to have the changes digested, and we have to overcome mental barriers. It takes time. We also have other problems in Turkey related to democratic development. Right now, we are busy only with the Kurdish wagon of this democratization train. We are at a point in which we are the closest we have been to the solution of the problem. We need to take advantage of it and defeat our mental barriers.
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