AK Party’s Çelik: BDP can do what Sinn Féin did in Ireland

“It would be good if they had this responsibility and could do what Sinn Féin did in Ireland,” said Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Deputy Chairman Hüseyin Çelik in an exclusive interview with Sunday’s Zaman.

Çelik pointed out that British officials talked to Gerry Adams, Sinn Fein’s leader, when they were trying to eliminate the Irish Republican Army (IRA). The Kurdish issue is again taking the center stage in Turkey following the Sept. 12 referendum for the constitutional amendment package, which received 58 percent approval and gave the government a fresh mandate. In an attempt to renew efforts for peace, the government sent its National Intelligence Organization (MİT) chief, Hakan Fidan, to Washington.

In addition, a former pro-Kurdish deputy, Aysel Tuğluk, was allowed to meet with the imprisoned PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan, who tried to distance himself from the PKK as a result of the Sept. 23 mine attack in Hakkari’s Geçitli that killed nine civilians. He said that the attack may have been conducted by a well-intentioned, but disorderly group inside the PKK -- or it may be a provocation directly planned by the PKK.

Meanwhile, Murat Karayılan, known as the PKK’s “number two” after Öcalan, has announced that the group has extended its unilateral cease-fire, which it calls a state of “no action,” until Oct. 30, adding that the cease-fire could be prolonged indefinitely if mutual confidence-building efforts continued to improve. For our interview, Çelik answered questions on the details of the efforts to achieve a peaceful and lasting resolution to the Kurdish issue.

The government has made Turkey’s Kurdish problem its priority again following some intervals. What is the difference between the process today and the process in the past?

There is not much difference. In the 2001 program of the AK Party, there is a heading “East and Southeast,” and we have already done most of the things outlined in that program. We want nobody to be displeased while living in this country. We would like all people to feel that they belong to this country. It is a fact that five groups of people were made “the other” in the one-party period after 1925. These groups are villagers who were banned from entering Ulus and Kızılay in the province of Ankara until 1946, when their votes counted as Turkey entered the multi-party era. The other groups which have been made “the other” are non-Muslims, Alevis, Kurds and pious Muslims. Our state should eliminate this point of view which makes some groups “the other.” The AK Party has assumed the responsibility of making peace between the state and those groups and, in order to address each group’s grievances, there have been initiatives started and steps taken. It is hard to eliminate years of discrimination, so we have to be patient. We are trying to eliminate the status quo and transform the state to a democratic one, from a bureaucratic one. The Kurdish problem has been incorrectly identified with the PKK today, but not all Kurds support the PKK, and the political party [the BDP] which has ties to the PKK does not represent all Kurds.

You said the AK Party did many of the things that it stated in its 2001 program. Could you give a few examples of these things?

First of all, we removed the practice of OHAL [emergency rule]. Secondly, the extrajudicial killings in the Southeast have become a thing of the past. Our zero-tolerance policy for torture has been implemented. We also removed barriers to learning Kurdish.

‘Education in mother tongue a difficult topic’

It is a very sensitive issue for the Kurds to receive education in Kurdish, and in order to draw attention to the topic, they boycotted the starting week of the school year last week. Is education in Kurdish possible in Turkey?

First of all, we removed a lot of barriers to the speaking Kurdish. A mother who does not know any language but Kurdish was not allowed to speak in Kurdish with her son who is in prison. Singing in Kurdish and having publications in Kurdish are not banned anymore. Having Kurdish departments at universities are not banned anymore either. We don’t see the Kurdish problem only as a problem related to low-income levels and the economy. We believe in the cultural rights of people. When we come to the topic of education in the mother tongue, it is possible to talk about an important point, which is education in the mother tongue and the official language of a state. There are so many ethnic groups in Turkey. I often give the example of the United States, where there are various ethnic groups and there is a big Hispanic population whose language is Spanish. Spanish is widely accepted and taught in the schools and outside, but the official language of the country is English. For a Kurd, to have a desire to have his or her children to learn the Kurdish language is a respectable right, and the state should make all things possible to have it realized. My mother tongue is Kurdish and I learned Turkish after I started school. Kurds are the largest majority after Turks in Turkey, but as I said there are other ethnic groups too, like Circassian and Laz. There will be no obstacles to learning and teaching a mother tongue, but education in mother tongue is a difficult topic.

So you are saying that Turkish will remain the only official language in Turkey but you will make it even easier to learn Kurdish as a second language.

I also would like to stress that demanding primary school education in Kurdish is the BDP’s policy and the BDP does not represent all Kurds. In the latest election, the BDP received 2.3 million votes. The number of Kurds living in Turkey is estimated to be 20 million. The BDP is the party which represents Kurdishness in Turkey, like the MHP [Nationalist Movement Party] is the party which represents Turkishness. When it comes to the AK Party, its policies are based on constitutional citizenship, and we don’t consider ethnically based politics correct in either the short, middle or long terms.

‘Is it better to have killing machines in the mountains?’

Regarding finding a solution to the long-lasting Kurdish problem, how do you think the BDP can be helpful?

When the IRA was finished off, officials in Britain talked to Sinn Fein’s leader, Gerry Adams. The BDP could take on such a responsibility, but when asked about this, the BDP points at Abdullah Öcalan as a person to talk to. The BDP did not play a functional role. It was not a wise policy for them not to do that.

But the BDP is not an armed organization, it’s a political party. How would it be able to talk about disarming the PKK in that situation?

The BDP is not armed but it is the political extension of the PKK. They have contact with Öcalan, they have contact with the PKK leaders in the Kandil Mountains. It is not possible for the government to sit down and talk with Öcalan, but the BDP could do it. It would be good if they had this responsibility and did what Sinn Féin did in Ireland.

How are talks going in regards to disarming the PKK?

The state would not bargain with the PKK in that regard, but it would use certain instruments in order to achieve it. Some people raise concerns about having members of the PKK in the community after the end of the conflict. Since the AK Party came to power, 1,100 PKK members have surrendered and started to walk among us. Is it better that they are killing machines in the mountains? If we put our wisdom before our feelings, we can solve the problem. Otherwise, we cannot. But whenever Turkey tries to solve its Kurdish problem, there are provocations. There are some people who do not want an end to the problem. For example, arms dealers.

Interior Minister Beşir Atalay recently went to northern Iraq. Was his visit related to pulling the PKK far from the Turkish borders?

The United States is pulling out of Iraq, leaving a security gap behind. There are PKK militants in northern Iraq. Both the Turkish and Iraqi governments are not comfortable with the fact that the PKK has attacked from northern Iraq into Turkey. We need to communicate with the northern Iraqi Kurdish administration in order to receive their support in achieving a solution to the problem.

‘Consensus a must in solving the Kurdish problem’

Don’t you think the Kurdish problem -- with its extrajudicial killings, rights violations, etc. -- has still not been understood in some parts of Turkey, especially in the West, and this is because it is still not told in its entirety? A lot of people still think that the Kurds are armed terrorists and that they fight for a Kurdish land, even though there are deep-rooted problems in which the state shares a big responsibility.

You are completely right. However, the government alone cannot be successful in explaining it and the opposition also has a responsibility in that regard. It would be impossible to take serious steps towards solving the Kurdish problem without correcting perceptions of the people in the Western part of Turkey. The opposition parties claimed that the AK Party is engaged in treason because we want to solve the Kurdish problem. During their referendum campaign they even highlighted this issue, instead of having a debate on the constitutional amendment package.

Now the AK Party has a stronger mandate after the overwhelming approval of the reform package, do you think the opposition’s stance will change?

I expect more common sense from both the Republican People’s Party [CHP] and the Nationalist Movement Party [MHP]. There are some signals of it in the CHP but not in the MHP. With its actions both before and after the referendum, the MHP looks like it is committing political suicide by not meeting the demands of its electorate. While Britain was solving its problems with the IRA, all political parties reached a consensus about how to approach the issue.

Do you think that’s possible in Turkey too?

Of course it is possible. But I don’t have optimism about the MHP for such a consensus. Before the referendum, the CHP did not seem helpful either, but following the referendum its approach has started to be different, possibly after lessons learned from the referendum result. Again, about how the British political parties saw the IRA issue, political parties there did not use the matter as an instrument against on another: they saw the matter as the problem of the country. In our case, let me give you an example. It’s a shame for some political parties to blame the AK Party for the PKK’s terrorism, knowing that the problem started in 1984. The MHP is the party which often uses the matter for political purposes. They say that the terrorism problem was almost over when they left the government in 2002, even though this was not a success that can be attributed to the MHP. Abdullah Öcalan was captured in 1998, and the Democratic Left Party [DSP] and the MHP came to power in 1999. With Öcalan’s capture, the PKK retreated and there was little PKK terrorism until 2004. The difference in the AK Party’s approach to the problem is that the solution to the Kurdish issue was associated with a military and security based approach of the past. The AK Party realizes that there are political, cultural, social, economic, psychological and even religious dimensions to the problem, and we want to address all of those issues not because the PKK or the BDP want it, but because this is the requirement of being a democratic state, which respects human rights and the rule of law.

‘If compromise commission established, work can start on new constitution’

How do you evaluate the signs of change in the CHP leader Kılıçdaroğlu’s more positive attitude following the referendum?

This must be a change related to the referendum results, and the CHP leader sees that insisting on not giving support to the much-needed constitutional change will not bear any positive results. As the prime minister said, if the distribution of chairs does not change much in the next general election, the AK Party will not wait until the CHP and the MHP agree to cooperate for constitutional change. The government will go ahead and work on a new constitution, as the people of the country demand it.

Kılıçdaroğlu said in a recent interview that there is no need to wait until next elections to work on a new constitution. What do you think of this suggestion?

It is important. This is a step forward for the CHP. However, the busy calendar in front of Parliament would not allow a constitutional change before the elections. As Parliament became functional again on Oct. 1, the most urgent task will be to pass harmonization laws in accordance with the requirements of the recently passed constitutional amendment package. Then there are gigantic laws waiting for approval: the Turkish Commercial Code, which comprises 1,500 articles, and the Code of Obligations with 650 articles. Then the budget talks will start and last until January. When we look at the calendar, we see that the election will be in June and prior to that there will be a three-month period for election campaigns. We will have so little time for an entirely new constitution and much of the work will be left for the next Parliament. However, good will is what is important. If we can establish a compromise commission in Parliament, work can start on the new constitution.

‘Referendum’s no votes concern us; we examine its reasons’

Do you have concerns regarding the referendum results because there are some groupings of regions which voted “no” for the reform package and this might be a sign of deepening polarization?

The “no” votes in the coastal provinces are more related to the concerns regarding Kurdish migration to those areas. There is a phenomenon of coastal nationalism in that regard. Some political opportunists used this issue to attribute the problems to the AK Party, as if it all happened as a result of its democratization initiative. However, we also see that the MHP’s traditional voters from the Central Anatolia now vote for the AK Party, as they do trust the party and its cadres. I should also note that we are examining the reasons for the “no” votes, since we are not a party of a specific region in Turkey. It is our duty to examine those concerns and address them.