Abd Al-Mahdi: “Kirkuk Should be Apart from Any Other Region”

Abd Al-Mahdi says that although Iraq is a diverse country he believes that Iraq will gradually integrate its people. Considering the Kirkuk problem, Abd Al-Mahdi said, “Kirkuk should be an independent region, not belonging to any other region. However, it could have special relations with Kurdistan or with any other region.”

ORSAM: What has changed for the Iraqi people since the collapse of the Saddam Hussein regime? 

Abd al-Mahdi: Well a lot of things have changed. First, our people now are free. Freedom of expression is opening up. It is freedom of press, freedom to form organizations and freedom to form parties, freedom to demonstrate and freedom to criticize the government and responsible members of the government. So freedom. This is a great change from the political regime to our democratic regime in its first steps. It is not yet as mature as Turkey, for example, and other countries. But these are first steps.   A second difference is that we try to have peaceful relations and democratic relations internally. And this is reflected by our relationships with our foreign friends, foreign countries, neighboring countries and the international community. So internal democracy, on the domestic level equals friendly relationships with the outside world. This is contrary to the old, the former, equation which was hostile with the people, hostile with neighbors. This is the second change which is really important.   Third, Iraq now is a constitutional nation. I don’t pretend that we are applying the constitution in all aspects of the law in all aspects. We inherited a lot of legal frameworks which we are still using according to those laws. So we are in a transition period. So there is a transformation of the society, of the education of the people and of the behavior of those responsible in the government and the administration. Of course, sine 2003 Iraq has witnessed a lot of violence because of Al Qaeda, because of the former regime activities of insurgency, and this marks the whole political life. And of course, those activities were real obstacles in front of development and the construction and investment. People kidnapped, taking hostages etc. even some Turkish citizens were victims of these acts. Still capacity building, good governance, inclusiveness, transparency, corruption. A lot of things are still there in our situation which we have to fight for and against.

What are Iraq’s main problems in terms of political, administrative and social affairs?

I think our main problem is uniting on one set of principles and one philosophy of how to govern. What are our priorities, what are our economical policies or foreign relations with other countries? So it is that all parties and all segments of society at least have the same background of how to see things and you know in Iraq it’s a plural and diverse society, we have many regions, we have many nationalities and communities, and due to absence of freedom of expression, it all came out in a brutal way after the change, so we have to contain all this and be united on a common platform. That’s why I said Iraq needs a transition period so people can be united. Faced with this in the parliament, people are divided on how to see things and the government, the ministers, some of the ministers still want a centralized economy or a state economy. Others want to go to the free market economy faster then has been done yet. The region of Kurdistan behaves somewhat differently than other parts of Iraq, because it was liberated ten years before the others. So there are many things that we need time to bring together in a common action.

How was the performance of the presidential council? Was it effective enough to meet the needs of the political and administrative system?

Well, the presidential council was voted for because at the time we were drafting the constitution and we were not able to legalize the articles in the the constitution about the second chamber. The legislature should have two chambers, a lower and an upper chamber. The senate and the house of representatives. We have already the house of representatives, but the second chamber has not been agreed upon. That’s why we went to the presidential council as a temporarily solution for the second chamber. The role of the second chamber is to veto, to check the laws. The role of the presidential council is to veto the resolutions and the laws of the parliament. Either to approve or to veto them. As a whole the presidential council played a role. The presidential council supervised those laws. And sometimes they passed them, other times they were vetoed. This is a first role that the presidential council more or less played. The other role as part of the government. The constitution the government is constituted of two pillars. The cabinet and the presidential council. It should participate in the planning and supervising, auditing etc. This role was not played in its complete sense.

What was the Iraqi people’s main message to the political parties in the last provincial elections?

I think people were not happy because most of the local government, all not most, were replaced. No local government sustained so people showed and the average of participation was the lowest. We went to many elections, the last elections, the provincial elections it was the lowest, it was about 50%. While it was much more than that in all other elections. So there are some protests that are coming from the people saying that the local governments are not doing well, especially on the service level and on the economic level. Although there has been some improvement on the security level and even on the political level. So I think that was the main message. But some people read/write other things from those elections. Some people read/write that those elections showed that they don’t want religious parties, that we don’t want sectarian parties. Which is problematic, which could be discussed. It is not really exactly the way I see it.

Did SCIRI successfully convince the Iraqi people that it was Mr. Maliki’s partner while the government was achieving stability and security in Iraq?

No, I don’t think it was successful with that. Otherwise why should it lose elections? It came second. It played a very important role in the opposition. And a very important role in drafting the constitution. And in forming the first governments. The first government, the second government and even the government of mister Maliki. But I think SCIRI, due to its success in the first years lost some contact with its constituency. People became officials, rather than people who know the people and were part of their communities. Maybe this explains why it did not do as well as they did in the first elections.

How did the SCIRI evaluate the provincial election results and prepare for this upcoming elections?

The numbers that SCIRI got provincial elections was not like it usually gets. SCIRI assessed the whole situation and it came on conclusions on two side organization organizational side and the political side. On the political side there was a change concerning how to deepen relations with the people how to avoid some mistakes and to be closer to the people. On the organizational side some measures were made for the coming elections. SCIRI held preliminary elections, which is new in Iraq. No other party did that. The Sadrists did it just one week before SCIRI did it. But the SCIRI operation was much larger than the Sadrists. During five days millions of people went to those elections and voted for candidates from SCIRI and for independents. And the results were used to make the lists presented now for the coming elections.

What will the Iraqi people vote for in the coming elections?

I think they will vote mainly for security and services. They want a successful government. They want to see good governance. They will vote against the return of the former regime. There is an overwhelming majority of Iraqi people who suffered from the old regime, and they will vote for those people who really have a strong stand against any return of the old regime.

Is the return of the old regime possible ?

No, not in its old form, but in a new form.

What were the reasons why SCIRI set up a coalition with the Sadrists? For as long as we know these groups have had a long history of different attitudes. What were the motivations?

Well, it’s like any other. This is a correction of policies. When Turkey is tired of its differences with Syria, it will try to have more friendly relationship with Syria. So those differences exhausted SCIRI and exhausted Sadrists and others. So that is why it was very important to build unity, not only with Sadrists, but also with the other party with whom we had historical relationship that without such relations the whole national alliance would not come to be real.

What will be the impact of banning the old Baathists in the upcoming elections?

Well, as I said in the last answer, our constitution stipulates two things. That the, what we call it, Saddamist Baath party is banned. It should be banned, so this a constitutional issue that we have. Like the Nazis in many countries, you ban some organizations because of their history, because they present some danger to the society. This is what the constitution stipulates, but there is another thing. All former Baathists have their rights as citizens and the people who are really excluded from political life are those who have been convicted. No convicted former Baathist, though a citizen, has the right to reconstitute the Baathist party, but as citizens they can participate in the political life, provided that they did not commit crimes or hold high rank in the Baathist party.

Do you think your election coalition will hold together after the elections and succeed in establishing a government? 

I hope so! But as you know in any case, this is political life. Nothing is final, but I think it is strong enough to face the difficulties of the first phase at least.

Does SCIRI have some preconditions for taking place in the same coalition with the other parties?

No we agreed on a common platform. Our conditions is the platform. We contracted on that platform. And this is what we accept. As in any other coalition we have a common platform as in any contract those are the framework, the conditions that we deal with inside the alliance or with other political parties. 

What is SCIRI’s position on Iraq’s disputed areas?

It should be solved according to the constitution. Is the constitution clear enough for solving this problem? No, it is not clear enough, but the constitution names the procedure, how to do it. First, there should be a census, and then the people of each area should have the final vote. And there should be a referendum.

Including Kirkuk?

Kirkuk? I personally advocate the idea of a common solution. A condominium solution. Kirkuk should be independent from any other region. Not belonging to any region, but it could have special relations with Kurdistan or with any other region. It’s like Andorra between France and Spain. It’s condominium solution as in many other countries with disputed areas. Sometimes you have a common regime, and it is distinguished from Kurdistan. It is not part of Kurdistan, but it is also has some special relations with Kurdistan.

Do you think things between the Kurdish region and the rest of Iraq are working in favor of integration or disintegration?

Contrary to a general opinion, I think Iraq is very well melded together. Iraq is a country that received immigrants from outside for centuries. And the role of Iraq was to really integrate and bond many communities. That’s why Iraq is a diverse country. We have communities. We have all these colors. I think Iraq gradually will integrate people. As a matter of fact, on the social level there is no disintegration. On the social level people are integrated. Common marriages, neighborhoods, etc., on the social level. The problem we have is on the political level. Because on the political level it was not a democratic country, and that is why many communities were deprived of power and isolated during these times, which created a certain psychology and education. I think that with democracy with exploiting Iraq and Iraq’s potentials, such as oil. Now we signed contracts which will bring Iraq to the standards of Saudi Arabia. And this is an integrating process. I think such issues will gradually be integrated. It is in the interest of all parties of all communities to be integrated in the same system and same country where interest is very high for all of us and the future is very promising.

The younger generation in the Kurdish region can only speak Kurdish, but not Arabic. What do you think about this?

I lived in Kurdistan in the nineties. And I advised the prime minister at the time that this is a mistake. Because you are part of Iraq and it is fully in your interest to educate the Kurds in Arabic. Because tomorrow you have ministers here in Baghdad and you will have deputies so it is much easier for you to learn Arabic. But because of the Baathification policies and Arabization policies there had been a reaction the Kurds, and this will take some time. And as a country we know that. At a certain time we were colonized by British and people were not willing to learn English, for example. But by time you finished with that, you will see that it can be a very useful tool. So I think Kurds need to learn Arabic as much as Arabs needs to learn Kurdish. As in many multiethnic countries. Take for example Switzerland or Belgium. It’s something that will come with time. And Kurds knew Arabic much better before than now. First, because of the army. They were all recruited to the same army and they learned Arabic. And the army played a very important integrating role. At least a very important role in making Arabic spoken by many Kurds at that time.

What is your opinion about Turkey’s decision to open a consulate in Erbil? 

I think it is a really good idea, opening a mission in Erbil and in other parts in Iraq. Turkey is playing a balancing role in Iraq. And a positive role, not only a balancing role, but a positive role.

What do you think Turkey’s attitude towards Iraqi Shiites should be? What are the positive and negative points in this relationship?

Turkey can’t have a deeper relationship without having relations with the majority of the people. Shiites represent 60% of the people. And we can’t build relations on sectarian standards. On a demographic level the Shiites are a majority. I’m not talking on the political level. But on the demographic level, they are a majority, and I think you have Shiites in Turkey. I think Turkey should have a very high interest in having a consulate in Basra and other parts of the south. Good relations with companies in the South. Pilgrims coming to Najaf and Kerbala from Turkey and vice versa. All such relations are very important for Turkey. Turkey is one of our two Islamic neighbors. And Turkey should have a very important role with Iraqis with Iraq. And I think it should have good relations with all segments of the Iraq communities especially with the majorities.

*This interview was conducted on 7 February 2010 in Baghdad by ORSAM experts.