Germany committed to Turkey’s EU talks, ambassador says

Referring to Deputy Chancellor and Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle’s visit to Turkey on Jan. 6, Cuntz said he explained the German government’s position. “As Westerwelle explained during his Turkey visit, the German government is fulfilling its responsibilities within this process both as Germany and as an EU member,” he said. “We have proven this as well; three negotiation chapters were opened during Germany’s term presidency. That many chapters had not been opened before.”

Commenting on the Ergenekon trial, which is attempting to uncover shadowy relationships within the government and coup plans, Cuntz suggested that the trial would be a test for democracy and law for Turkey. “Without any taboos or by overcoming any existing taboos, it should be found out whether there was an attempt to overthrow the government. But as also noted in the progress report, this trial will be settled observing the rule of law and individual freedoms,” he said.

Turkey’s relations with Germany are on the agenda again as German Education Minister Annette Schavan will be in Turkey on Thursday. She is expected to discuss plans to establish a Turkish-German university in İstanbul.

Cuntz answered our questions on bilateral relations and more.

Turkey is holding joint cabinet meetings with Syria, Iraq and Russia. It is also planning to hold one with Greece. But the last time Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke was two years ago. Is there a slowdown in relations between Turkey and Germany?

To the contrary, relations between the two countries have gained momentum lately. I think there has been a revival in relations. What kicked it off was Westerwelle’s visit to Turkey on Jan. 6. During his visit, it was decided to consolidate and increase strategic dialogue between Turkey and Germany. Shortly after the minister’s visit the German Foreign Ministry undersecretary and my predecessor in Ankara visited Turkey and spoke about the matter in detail. The German parliamentary president attended İstanbul’s 2010 European Capital of Culture opening activities. In fact he was the highest-level official visitor from abroad. German Minister for Education Schavan will be coming this week. She will address educational and academic issues and discuss plans to open a Turkish-German university in İstanbul. German Defense Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg was in İstanbul for the NATO meeting. The minister of the economy of North Rhine-Westphalia, which is German’s biggest state and has the largest population of Turkish-origin citizens, came to İstanbul for its fashion week.  In the near future, Bavaria, the second biggest German state, will open a business representative office in İstanbul. We are continuing to work very hard to schedule a visit for Chancellor Merkel to Turkey in spring. I don’t think Turkey has as close bilateral relations with any other country.  Despite the economic crisis, Germany is still the most important trade partner for Turkey. There are close to 4,000 German companies operating in Turkey. No other country has as many companies in Turkey. The number of tourists hasn’t dropped because of the crises either. The figure was more than 4 million last year.

All of these point to the profoundness of relations. Turkey is truly very valuable for Germany and I hope Turkey thinks the same way about its relations with Germany.

Germany holds joint cabinet meetings with France and Israel. Can a cabinet meeting be held with Turkey as well? Did this subject ever come up during Westerwelle’s visit?

German Ambassador to Turkey Dr. Eckart Cuntz

There is no concrete plan on this subject. But I must say that Turkey-Germany relations have a very special characteristic that should be taken into consideration. We must give the factors that make these relations different due credit. We can really use the words “unique and unparalleled” to describe relations between the two countries. Just by looking at the close to 3 million Turkish people that live in Germany, the factor that makes relations different becomes visible. According to figures that have reached me, there are 4.5 million people in Turkey that have previously lived in Germany. Some of these are German citizens and some of these are Turkish citizens. There is a very tight and close bond. For example I can no longer keep track of official visits. The transportation minister made an official visit yesterday. There is major cooperation between Berlin Technical University and İstanbul Technical University. This intensity has developed its own dynamics. As an ambassador I take great pleasure in this because relations do not exist only between governments and official institutions but also between people and companies.

What is the status of  the Turkish-German university planned to be built in İstanbul? When will it open?

If it was up to me, I would say it should open in 2010. It would be a good year, with İstanbul being a cultural capital. Furthermore, a consortium consisting of many prestigious German universities is closely interested in this university project. We believe that a nice location can definitely be found in İstanbul. I think it is going to be a project that will contribute significantly to both the German and Turkish people. It will be a project that will intensify relations and give momentum in the areas of science, research and education. It will have reflections on other countries. For example, it will definitely become an appealing university for students from Azerbaijan and Central Asian countries. It will create a field of interest among students from Germany as well.

Do you have any concerns about Turkey developing closer ties with countries in the region, such as with Iran, while relations with Israel are on the decline?

As you know Turkey has always been a close friend and ally of Germany. We attach great importance to Turkey’s role in the region as an anchor of stability. I listened to Prime Minister Erdoğan’s impressive speech last week at the International Strategic Research Organization [USAK]. In reference to Atatürk, he did a splendid job in explaining the “peace at home, peace in the world” matter. Turkey is located in a region surrounded by crises. Turkey is playing a critical role in every place and this role is contributing to stability. These topics were discussed in detail when Westerwelle was here and it is for these reasons that it was decided to intensify strategic dialogue. This is a unique situation and Germany understands the importance of the role Turkey plays and can play.

Some evaluate Turkey’s increasing ties in the region as an indication that it turning its back on the West. Do you also think Turkey has shifted its axis?

No, I definitely don’t see anything like that. Turkey’s position is clear and it continues to be Germany’s friend and ally. Erdoğan has clearly explained this as well. He has emphasized that Turkey will continue to head in the direction that leads to the EU. Due to its position, Turkey continues to play a critical role in the region and we can see that. For example, as a neighbor we should be able to look at Iran from Turkey’s perspective as well because then we can ask ourselves what it is that Turkey can do to ensure stability in this area. And as a neighboring country, Turkey’s role as an active and constructive country is of paramount importance to us.

Whether we agree or not, the “privileged partnership” formula that Berlin offered for Turkey’s EU membership has cast a cloud over relations in recent years. But we haven’t been hearing of this formula lately. Has Berlin given up on the “privileged partnership” formula?

As you know there is a profound debate over this topic in Germany. It is also a fact that political parties do not all share the same view. But as Westerwelle explained during his Turkey visit, the German government is fulfilling its responsibilities within this process both as Germany and as an EU member. We have done everything that we can for this process to move forward and we will continue to do so. We have proven this as well; three negotiation chapters were opened during Germany’s term presidency under the government of Chancellor Merkel. That many chapters had not been opened before. Westerwelle’s comments about this matter during his visit to Turkey resonated both in the Turkish and German press.

So did Westerwelle say the final words on this topic?

Yes, Minister Westerwelle explained the points that were agreed upon in the German government’s coalition agreement over again. In the coalition agreement signed by the government set up after the Sept. 27 elections, it was stated that Turkey’s progression in this process would be beneficial for Germany’s national interests as well. This is truly a first because no other government has ever included this kind of a positive expression in their program before.  By saying “I am not here as a tourist,” Westerwelle was explaining that he was speaking on behalf of the government. The minister also touched upon the “pacta sunt servanda.” By mentioning this he was explaining that both sides had responsibilities. He was explaining that Turkey needed to remain steadfast in implementing reforms during the negotiation process, that this process was not an automatic process and that the continuation of reforms was an inevitable condition.

If relations are tight and we are striving to improve them even further, why did Germany impose a one-sided visa requirement for tourists, artists and businessmen in 1980? The European court has made a ruling in this decision. When will this problem be solved?

I think this is a very important issue. Both at the embassy and at the consulates in İstanbul and İzmir we are doing everything we can to facilitate visa procedures. For example, we are trying to make it easier to obtain business and student visas. Of course the visa issue does not concern just Germany. Germany is an EU member and as a Schengen country -- it cannot act on its own. Decisions related to this issue are mainly determined in Brussels. The Soysal decision of the European Court of Justice concerns some EU countries.

There are concerns that the German policy on integration tends to concentrate on religion and culture, but ignores economic and social discrimination issues. What’s your opinion about this?

For many years, we have ignored the fact that Germany is receiving migration. Today, Germany is completely different from what it was 50 years ago. Today the people of Germany are also very different. There are Turks from the third and even from the fourth generation. There are about 15 million people with foreign origins living in Germany. They have now become part of Germany. I am here the ambassador of all Germans whatever their origins are. We should assess better the existing education potential. For instance, there is increased demand for specialists and technical staff in Germany. Therefore, we need to make better use of the potential of our young people. If families can ensure that their children make some progress in learning German before the school age, this will also give them the opportunity to attend better schools. Learning German does not imply that they will give up their identity.

What contributions can Turkey make in this regard?

The people who have decided to stay in Germany should be regarded as part of Germany. Within the framework of the freedom of religion, we provide opportunities for these people, irrespectively of their being Muslims, Alevis or Assyrians, to perform their worship. Religious freedoms constitute an important part of the German constitution. There are about 2,000 mosques in Germany, and 160 of them are big mosques with minarets. There was an Islamic summit, initiated by former Interior Minister Schaeuble. This practice still continues.

Recently, a mosque in Reinsburg, Germany, was permitted to recite the call to prayer five times a day. However, there is a rising trend of Islamophobia. How can this contribute to integration?

I have read the Reinsburg decision. It was the local government’s decision. It was extremely liberal. I think that if local administrations in Turkey can take similar decisions such an allowing the ringing of church bells, it would be a very positive development. Freedom of religion should be observed everywhere. Freedom of religion is as important in Turkey as it is in Europe. If Christian or Jewish communities would be able to establish their own communities in Turkey, this would be very good. For instance, the opening of the Halki Seminary on the island of Heybeliada near İstanbul can be addressed in this context. I know that freedom of religion exists in law in Turkey, but it is also a fact that there are many obstacles in practice. For instance, the 1,600-years-old Mor Gabriel Monastery faces the risk of losing its lands.

You mentioned Islamophobia. In my opinion, this fear stems from lack of knowledge about the other side or religion and lack of sufficient communication between two sides. We attach great importance to interreligious dialogue. In this framework, we organize an Islamic dialogue meeting at the consul’s residence in Tarabya every year. The issue of whether a faculty of theology will be established in Germany was discussed in great detail. We give intensive support to the training of the cleric officials and imams the Religious Affairs Directorate will send to Germany. Before they go, they are given courses on the German language and culture. Language training is provided even to the families of these clerics. We actually encourage that instead of sending such officials from Turkey, Turks living in Germany should be trained at a faculty of theology in a German university. Thus, religious services may be provided by people living in Germany who are educated in Germany.

There are claims circulating in the Turkish media that Germany is the foreign partner of the Ergenekon terrorist organization. What do you think about these claims?

Actually, my only concern is that such completely unrealistic claims are even voiced. As I said before, given the level of bilateral relations between two countries, I think it is worrying to see these claims are voiced in the media.

As for Ergenekon, it is a hotly debated topic in the Turkish press and even the progress report of the European Union addressed it. Without any taboos or by overcoming any existing taboos, it should be found out that whether there was an attempt to overthrow the government. But as noted also in the progress report, this trial must be settled observing the rule of law and individual freedoms.

The European Commission and the European Parliament regard the Ergenekon trial as a chance for democracy. What is Germany’s stance in this regard?

In my opinion, this trial is an important test for Turkey. The essence of this test is to uncover some attempts to overthrow the government and democracy. Certainly as the progress report said, the rule of law must be respected. This is really an important exam. This is what I believe.

Are the people of Cappadocia part of the European civilization -- given French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s statement that “the people of Cappadocia are not part of the European civilization”?

I think Cappadocia has made great contributions to the civilization, culture and religion of Europe. When I was a student, I attended a social sciences high school. There, we learned ancient Greek. I can observe here what I learned at that school. I can see that its roots are in Turkey. We realize that the origins of our religion and culture in Europe are here in Turkey. For instance, the news story about the “Turkish Cammar” in Dresden, published in Aksiyon weekly, is particularly interesting in this regard.